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	<title>Comments on: Hang Out The Flag!  We’ve Hit 300,000,000 Today… Or was it 5 years ago?</title>
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	<link>http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/</link>
	<description>A Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: NomDebPlume</title>
		<link>http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>NomDebPlume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-74</guid>
		<description>Curt -

Welcome back to the blog-world, my friend... :-)  (what?  No more &quot;tellitlikeitis&quot;?)

About the smuggler&#039;s buns, from what I heard, the charges had to do with some rule where the agents are not allowed to discharge their weapons without first getting the go-ahead from a supervisor.  Apparently, time did not permit the required phonecall (with the smuggler running across the border and all), and the agents did not follow protocol.  Chances are, the court transcript would include a lot more facts than these, but that&#039;s all I&#039;ve got... :-)  And a lawsuit claiming his rights were violated... man, I can&#039;t even comment any further... :-/

I&#039;ve heard about the Kulongowski-Saxton race, also about how Saxton has been effective by focusing on illegal immigration during his campaign - DESPITE the fact that he&#039;s been guilty of hiring illegals on his farm in the past.  Apparently, his refusal to admit, or even talk about, the subject hasn&#039;t hurt him terribly.  Oh, it&#039;s hypocrisy, no doubt.  All I can think of is that maybe people are willing to be &quot;forgiving&quot; if this guy&#039;s willing to do something about the problem &lt;em&gt;now&lt;/em&gt;.  That&#039;s how big of a problem it is - people are hungry for someone to say something definitive on the subject instead of all this dancing around it.

But you are right about it being a huge and multi-faceted problem.  As my [liberal] best friend pointed out to me today, &quot;what are you going to do, deport them all?  Think of the logistics... it can&#039;t be done.&quot;  At the same time, this friend happens to be a resident alien from Holland who had to jump through hoops to get and stay here.  The idea of a &lt;em&gt;Pathway to Citizenship&lt;/em&gt; for lawbreakers who cheated the system is not attractive, either.

Beyond the fruit-picking, the yard-mowing, etc., you have a point about the economy.  The problem has infiltrated many sectors that will feel a void - WE will feel a void.  It remains to be seen how many Americans will fill jobs now held by illegal immigrants and if the payscale will accommodate those working citizens.  But if so, could the effect on the economy ultimately be a good thing?

Whatever the case, whatever the combined solutions, I think we all agree the hemorrhaging should try to be stopped now.  (at least the 3 of us do :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curt -</p>
<p>Welcome back to the blog-world, my friend&#8230; :-)  (what?  No more &#8220;tellitlikeitis&#8221;?)</p>
<p>About the smuggler&#8217;s buns, from what I heard, the charges had to do with some rule where the agents are not allowed to discharge their weapons without first getting the go-ahead from a supervisor.  Apparently, time did not permit the required phonecall (with the smuggler running across the border and all), and the agents did not follow protocol.  Chances are, the court transcript would include a lot more facts than these, but that&#8217;s all I&#8217;ve got&#8230; :-)  And a lawsuit claiming his rights were violated&#8230; man, I can&#8217;t even comment any further&#8230; :-/</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard about the Kulongowski-Saxton race, also about how Saxton has been effective by focusing on illegal immigration during his campaign &#8211; DESPITE the fact that he&#8217;s been guilty of hiring illegals on his farm in the past.  Apparently, his refusal to admit, or even talk about, the subject hasn&#8217;t hurt him terribly.  Oh, it&#8217;s hypocrisy, no doubt.  All I can think of is that maybe people are willing to be &#8220;forgiving&#8221; if this guy&#8217;s willing to do something about the problem <em>now</em>.  That&#8217;s how big of a problem it is &#8211; people are hungry for someone to say something definitive on the subject instead of all this dancing around it.</p>
<p>But you are right about it being a huge and multi-faceted problem.  As my [liberal] best friend pointed out to me today, &#8220;what are you going to do, deport them all?  Think of the logistics&#8230; it can&#8217;t be done.&#8221;  At the same time, this friend happens to be a resident alien from Holland who had to jump through hoops to get and stay here.  The idea of a <em>Pathway to Citizenship</em> for lawbreakers who cheated the system is not attractive, either.</p>
<p>Beyond the fruit-picking, the yard-mowing, etc., you have a point about the economy.  The problem has infiltrated many sectors that will feel a void &#8211; WE will feel a void.  It remains to be seen how many Americans will fill jobs now held by illegal immigrants and if the payscale will accommodate those working citizens.  But if so, could the effect on the economy ultimately be a good thing?</p>
<p>Whatever the case, whatever the combined solutions, I think we all agree the hemorrhaging should try to be stopped now.  (at least the 3 of us do :-)</p>
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		<title>By: NomDebPlume</title>
		<link>http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>NomDebPlume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-73</guid>
		<description>WC-

Glad to hear about trying to set aside the verdict - it sets an awful precedent.  

But the joke you heard about nobody wanting to do the jobs that illegals do, combined with some of Curt&#039;s comments, got me thinking... I thiink the whole illegal immigration problem is a lot bigger than my &quot;sit-at-home-and-spew-ideas-about-it&quot; reaction.  

While this post was written to illustrate what a farce the whole 300 millionth person thing is when we have such a formidable immigration problem - Are there that many Americans willing to pick fruit out in the hot sun all day for menial wages?  We &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; a spoiled nation... :-/


&lt;em&gt;...and why wasn&#039;t *I* invited to this party....?&lt;/em&gt; :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WC-</p>
<p>Glad to hear about trying to set aside the verdict &#8211; it sets an awful precedent.  </p>
<p>But the joke you heard about nobody wanting to do the jobs that illegals do, combined with some of Curt&#8217;s comments, got me thinking&#8230; I thiink the whole illegal immigration problem is a lot bigger than my &#8220;sit-at-home-and-spew-ideas-about-it&#8221; reaction.  </p>
<p>While this post was written to illustrate what a farce the whole 300 millionth person thing is when we have such a formidable immigration problem &#8211; Are there that many Americans willing to pick fruit out in the hot sun all day for menial wages?  We <em>are</em> a spoiled nation&#8230; :-/</p>
<p><em>&#8230;and why wasn&#8217;t *I* invited to this party&#8230;.?</em> :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-71</guid>
		<description>I agree wholeheartedly, illegal immigration into this country is a serious problem. I hadn&#039;t heard about the smuggler&#039;s sore buns, and I&#039;m wondering on exactly what charge the agents were sentenced, but in any case the idea of a lawsuit seems utterly ridiculous. 

The night before I left Oregon they were showing the gubernatorial debate on television. Ted Kulongowski is the incumbent D and he&#039;s up against Ron Saxton, whom I believe was a senator. Saxton---and please understand, this is not to pick on Rs at all, I&#039;m just saying---has gained a lot of political capital because he is supposedly firmly in favor of tightened controls on illegal immigration, which is a much larger issue in Oregon than even here in Alabama. Well, it turns out that Saxton used to own, among many other businesses, a fruit farm which was almost wholly staffed by illegal immigrants. All the big fruit farms out there are usually staffed by migrant workers because the farmers claim they can&#039;t make a profit without paying bottom-of-the-barrel, under-the-table wages. And when Saxton was approached about this on the debate floor in a question from a journalist, he refused to address it in any specific way. All he could say was &quot;I did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. I did nothing...&quot; and so on. I mean, it was like a tape recorder. 

I guess my point, if I even have one, is that, like yourself, I&#039;m very much in favor of addressing this issue proactively and with a firm hand. But everyone who thinks this way also needs to be aware that we&#039;re talking about something which is going to have major, major implications for the economy and for living standards among a significant portion of the (legal) population of the country. It goes far beyond the price of fruit. We&#039;re going to have to do a certain amount of reverse-engineering of the economy to de-accomodate illegal aliens, and it won&#039;t be easy. But I think it&#039;s definitely worth it, especially since, as you said, 300 will turn to 400 and then to 500 before we know it. It&#039;s not like we just put up a fence and then things work themselves out. Of course you realize that, but I honestly think some folks don&#039;t. But it&#039;s a good step, even if it is largely symbolic, and more terse controls on employment is, I think, a fantastic idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wholeheartedly, illegal immigration into this country is a serious problem. I hadn&#8217;t heard about the smuggler&#8217;s sore buns, and I&#8217;m wondering on exactly what charge the agents were sentenced, but in any case the idea of a lawsuit seems utterly ridiculous. </p>
<p>The night before I left Oregon they were showing the gubernatorial debate on television. Ted Kulongowski is the incumbent D and he&#8217;s up against Ron Saxton, whom I believe was a senator. Saxton&#8212;and please understand, this is not to pick on Rs at all, I&#8217;m just saying&#8212;has gained a lot of political capital because he is supposedly firmly in favor of tightened controls on illegal immigration, which is a much larger issue in Oregon than even here in Alabama. Well, it turns out that Saxton used to own, among many other businesses, a fruit farm which was almost wholly staffed by illegal immigrants. All the big fruit farms out there are usually staffed by migrant workers because the farmers claim they can&#8217;t make a profit without paying bottom-of-the-barrel, under-the-table wages. And when Saxton was approached about this on the debate floor in a question from a journalist, he refused to address it in any specific way. All he could say was &#8220;I did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. I did nothing&#8230;&#8221; and so on. I mean, it was like a tape recorder. </p>
<p>I guess my point, if I even have one, is that, like yourself, I&#8217;m very much in favor of addressing this issue proactively and with a firm hand. But everyone who thinks this way also needs to be aware that we&#8217;re talking about something which is going to have major, major implications for the economy and for living standards among a significant portion of the (legal) population of the country. It goes far beyond the price of fruit. We&#8217;re going to have to do a certain amount of reverse-engineering of the economy to de-accomodate illegal aliens, and it won&#8217;t be easy. But I think it&#8217;s definitely worth it, especially since, as you said, 300 will turn to 400 and then to 500 before we know it. It&#8217;s not like we just put up a fence and then things work themselves out. Of course you realize that, but I honestly think some folks don&#8217;t. But it&#8217;s a good step, even if it is largely symbolic, and more terse controls on employment is, I think, a fantastic idea.</p>
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		<title>By: writerchick</title>
		<link>http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>writerchick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-67</guid>
		<description>Yes, I did hear about the border patrol agents. There is a movement to get the Prez to set aside the verdict or cancel it - or whatever presidents can do about such things.

Yeah, illegal aliens apparently have more rights than U.S. citizens these days. Hard not feel resentment about it. I heard a comedian the other night who was saying &#039;what&#039;s with all this they are doing the jobs that Americans won&#039;t do? Come to my neighborhood, they are all just standing around and hanging out at the 7/11 - Americans definitely will do those jobs.&#039; Funny but sad at the same time.

Okay, yes - busted - I did get my secret decoder ring and the party was great - we all piled into a pick up truck and went to Home Depot. ;)
WC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I did hear about the border patrol agents. There is a movement to get the Prez to set aside the verdict or cancel it &#8211; or whatever presidents can do about such things.</p>
<p>Yeah, illegal aliens apparently have more rights than U.S. citizens these days. Hard not feel resentment about it. I heard a comedian the other night who was saying &#8216;what&#8217;s with all this they are doing the jobs that Americans won&#8217;t do? Come to my neighborhood, they are all just standing around and hanging out at the 7/11 &#8211; Americans definitely will do those jobs.&#8217; Funny but sad at the same time.</p>
<p>Okay, yes &#8211; busted &#8211; I did get my secret decoder ring and the party was great &#8211; we all piled into a pick up truck and went to Home Depot. ;)<br />
WC</p>
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		<title>By: NomDebPlume</title>
		<link>http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>NomDebPlume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 03:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-66</guid>
		<description>It IS scary... who knows who&#039;s crossing that border?  And did you hear about the agents who were convicted (yesterday, I think) for shooting a drug trafficker in the butt while crossing the border?  They were sentenced for 10-12 years! Plus, the guy&#039;s suing the U.S. because his &lt;em&gt; rights&lt;/em&gt; were violated.  He&#039;s not a citizen... he doesn&#039;t HAVE rights in our country!

Tell the truth, Annie... you were MIA for those days because you were enjoying some extended &quot;Population-hits-300-million&quot; Party, weren&#039;t you? ;-)  Did they give decoder rings in the goodie bags? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It IS scary&#8230; who knows who&#8217;s crossing that border?  And did you hear about the agents who were convicted (yesterday, I think) for shooting a drug trafficker in the butt while crossing the border?  They were sentenced for 10-12 years! Plus, the guy&#8217;s suing the U.S. because his <em> rights</em> were violated.  He&#8217;s not a citizen&#8230; he doesn&#8217;t HAVE rights in our country!</p>
<p>Tell the truth, Annie&#8230; you were MIA for those days because you were enjoying some extended &#8220;Population-hits-300-million&#8221; Party, weren&#8217;t you? ;-)  Did they give decoder rings in the goodie bags? :-)</p>
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		<title>By: writerchick</title>
		<link>http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>writerchick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nomdebplume.wordpress.com/2006/10/17/hang-out-the-flag-we%e2%80%99ve-hit-300000000-today%e2%80%a6-or-was-it-5-years-ago/#comment-64</guid>
		<description>That is an amazing video! It was funny yet frightening at the same time. I&#039;m with you on this one Deb. Those numbers were puzzling me too. I just couldn&#039;t figure out that there fuzzy math they were using.

And btw, the government is required to use language that only a special secret decoder ring can translate - otherwise it would only take one government employee to do what they are paying 37 to do. ;)
WC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is an amazing video! It was funny yet frightening at the same time. I&#8217;m with you on this one Deb. Those numbers were puzzling me too. I just couldn&#8217;t figure out that there fuzzy math they were using.</p>
<p>And btw, the government is required to use language that only a special secret decoder ring can translate &#8211; otherwise it would only take one government employee to do what they are paying 37 to do. ;)<br />
WC</p>
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